Our Cook(e) YDNA Path : Comparing Y700 results with FTDNA's Estimate from an Uploaded Autosomal of the Y Tester's Brother

Below is the path of my youngest brother's results. He tested as a direct male descendant of Wm Clifford Cook(1811-1882) our 2nd Great Grandfather -- a brick wall of our Cook research.

YDNA Haplogroup Path: Descendant of Wm C Cook(1811-1882) Bedford Co., TN, USA

R-M269    --Descendants of Wm Tryon Patterson, Wm Cook(e), and Shem Cooke(1722-1796 Granville NC)

R-L23 
R-L51
R-P310
R-L151 --Wm Cooke b 1740 Surry Co Descendant
R-P312
R-Z46516
R-ZZ11
R-U152
R-L2
R-Z258
R-Z367   --(Carroll Co TN Roland Cooke Descend(Thru Shem's son James)
R-Z34  --Hunt Surname NPE;  My brother, David's estimated Haplogroup
R-Z33
R-BY164497
R-BY3604
R-Z256
R-Z275 -- (Shem Cooke--Carroll Co GA Descend thru Roland B Cooke;  Cook with unk path
R-CTS7352 My Brother at the Y500 Level
R-BY72556 --My Brother Y700 (Wm Clifford Cook descendant thru Wm Green Cook; Patterson who descends from Wm Tryon Patterson w/ Carroll Co GA connected Y Line.

We started out with the R-M269 and it stayed there with upgrades until I could purchase a BigY test.  I have placed several others I have identified in his match list to visualize where they are within the path.  I also included my other brother's estimated Haplogroup which FamilyTreeDNA notified me about this past week.  It is one of the haplogroups that FTDNA has estimated from an uploaded autosomal DNA test. I had expected that he estimated Haplogroup would be R-M269 but it was more precise.  I'm not complaining.

If you have a connection to Cook(e)s from  Granville, Wake or Warren Co NC or the Carroll Co GA or Carroll Co TN Cook(e) please consider testing now or when they have their next YDNA sale at FamilyTreeDNA  If you have tested or have a family member who has tested you both should consider joining the Cook(e)-Koch DNA Project. 

Y-DNA Badge for Haplogroup Estimate from
uploaded autosomal DNA

MyHeritage offers Free Access to DNA tools with DNA Upload Feb 21-28

I received this message from Daniel Horowitz of MyHeritage yesterday and wanted to pass it on to anyone who has taken an autosomal DNA test at AncestryDNA, 23&me or FTDNA.

His message reads....

"For a limited time only, between February 21–28, 2021, we are waiving the unlock fee.You can now upload your DNA data to MyHeritage and get access to your Ethnicity Estimate, Genetic Groups, and other advanced DNA tools such as the Chromosome Browser, AutoClusters, and Theory of Family Relativity™ — absolutely free! These features will remain free forever for the DNA kits you upload to MyHeritage during this week."

Check out MyHeritage's Blog for more info on this.

Those tricky DNA circles

I have began working thru the probate records of my Paternal Grandfather's Ogilvie and Harris lines which come together at my 5th Great Grandparents. My tree is at Ancestry where I have tested along with my sister and my Mom.  All of our DNA results are at GEDmatch as well.  As I work and look thru hints I like to check the profiles of others who have linked to or uploaded information.  When I visit their profile it also lets me check to see if there is a DNA match between me and that person.   I can also select other tests I admin to see if any of them match.  One of the good things about this is that if that person manages any other test and they match the test you have selected they will also appear beneath that profile, even if you don't match the profile but do have a match with one or more test which they admin.

Clicking on the word "your" lets you select other tests you admin to check against their profile

It's unclear to me when you don't find a match if it means they don't match you or if perhaps they haven't tested.  At this point I only give weight to the matches...and not any additional when they don't because I don't know if they have tested.

In this particular case my sister has the larger matches(17-20 cM segment) with both of these persons who tested and my Moderate match with the D.E. kit is only 6.6 cMs.  Ancestry has put us all in the Ann Knox circle together.  At this point there is not a Ogilvie or Harris Circle even though I do see descendants from at least 4 lines that descend from them working on trees.  Likely not enough of them have tested or the ones that have tested do not have DNA in common.  I contacted the main profile person and heard back from them within an hour(almost a record).  Now here is where it gets tricky.  The researcher has several tests at Ancestry(self, parent, sibling and maternal uncle) Along with the being included in the Ann Knox Circle for the testers profile, Shared Ancestor Hints for  Jacob Sutton and wife Ann Knox are shown as well as William Ogilvie and Mary Harris.   Since the Sutton/Knox and Ogilvie/Harris are on different sides of the main testers family we were able to determine that the match my sister has with  her is likely Ogilvie/Harris.  Looking at others who match at smaller amounts along the same segment and knowing the likely line, I have been able to find several others who appear to all have lineage back to this Ogilvie/Harris couple though I am still working on it.  To add too this.  The particular segment along which my sister(we are full siblings) matches is one which I and my sister do not have in common.  For that segment I have matches which come from our Paternal Grandmother's side of the family  This helps to know because it tells me if I match my PGM and my sister doesn't match me along that segment, that she got the only other segment that Dad could have given her....the one he got from his Dad, our PGF.

This is why it is important to look at the matching segments rather than rely on the DNA circles.  I cannot stress that enough.  I feel like the best approach to the DNA circles is to work them looking over the matches and trying to get as many as possible that match you at large amounts to GEDmatch where you can examine them more closely and prove or disprove each of the matches for that circle.

Dear Cousins: If you have taken an atDNA test, please consider uploading to GEDmatch

Downloading Your Raw DNA Data

AncestryDNA ---- FTDNA ---- MyHeritage ---- 23andMe

If you have taken an Autosomal DNA test PLEASE consider uploading to GEDmatch. Even if your only reason for taking the test was to find out your ethnicity.  When you test, your matches are restricted to those who have also tested at that same site.  By uploading to GEDmatch you are able to compare with others who have taken an autosomal DNA test at any of the other companies and uploaded to GEDmatch.  Below are instructions for downloading from AncestryDNA, FTDNA, MyHeritage and 23&me. Follow the instructions for the download and then scroll further down the page where you will find the instructions for uploading to GEDmatch.

If you tested at AncestryDNA
From your DNA Insights page click on Settings in the upper right just below your DNA Page header.

On the settings page you will see the option to Download Raw Data.  Click on that and follow the instructions.  Also while you are at the page consider linking your DNA to  your Tree.





After you have downloaded your file from AncestryDNA you will want to upload to GEDmatch.  Use the file you downloaded and follow the instructions under the Uploading to GEDmatch.com section.

If you tested at FTDNA
From your myFTDNA Dashboard:

Or from the myFTDNA Menu on the Left

After clicking the Download Raw Data link you should see a screen like this.  You can download Builf 36 if you are uploading to regular GEDmatch and build 37 if you are uploading to GEDmatch Genesis.
;Save the file somewhere you can  Browse to and DO NOT open the file.  You will upload the zipped file to GEDmatch.

After you have downloaded your file from FTDNA you will want to upload to GEDmatch.  Use the file you downloaded and follow the instructions under the Uploading to GEDmatch.com section


If you tested at 23&me

The transfer of the raw data from 23&me to GEDmatch is easier than ever. You can now transfer straight from 23&me to GEDmatch see image below.  No need to deal with the upload section of this page if you are able to transfer a copy straight to GEDmatch.

****Please note if you received your results after Aug 9th you may not be able to upload to GEDmatch but should be able to upload under the GEDmatch Genesis section located at the bottom of the column on the right. ****

I've retained the old instructions for anyone who would rather download their data and then upload the file to GEDmatch.
From your 23&me page. Log in.  It should give you a warning that DNA can contain sensitive info.

Select the Tools Tab from your top and then you should see the Browse or Download tabs. Choose Download and scroll down the page. Click on the button to submit your request. You will be prompted to select what DNA you want to download.choose the autosomal test1-22 and X and follow their instructions.

If you tested at MyHeritage

Uploading to GEDmatch.com

Once you have downloaded your Raw Data.....it's time to upload to GEDmatch.  If you have not registered you will need to do so in order that you may access the site.

After registration, you should be able to log in with your email and password which you chose.

Upload your Raw Data and fill out the info for your kit.  Your kit is usually ready shortly after uploading for One To One comparison but it will normally take at least 24 hours for the batch it is in is completely processed so that you can run the  One To Many for your kit and begin trying to figure out how you match to all those folks.

A listing of the DNA kits you have uploaded will show in the "Your DNA Resources" section located in the left panel of your GEDmatch dashboard page.  You may have to scroll to see it.  See the example below.

While you are waiting for the batch process...you might consider uploading a GEDCOM and linking it to your test results.

Hope you have found this helpful.

The importance of DNA testing siblings

This week I was contacted by a DNA match. She went on to tell me that her file was at GEDmatch and that we had in the range of a 4.7 generation match. The first thing I always do after being contacted by a match is to run their One To Many and then do a Find within page for my email address. I did this and found mine in the 4.7 range. Hit next....and surprise. Mom and my sister match her at 6.7. Of course this means that I need to run the One To One comparison for each of us to this match and see what is going on. Upon doing that for both Autosomal and X I can tell you why I match more than my sister matches.

My best guess is this. On Chromosome 4 that is a match from my Dad's side that my sister didn't get. On this portion of Dad's side I also match a Morrow/Sutton cousin. I should also note for later research that since my sister doesn't match this on this segment to the Morrow/Sutton cousin which is from my PGM side...that my sister on this segment of her DNA from Dad got the part that Dad got from his Dad(PGF). Ran the One to One of the Morrow/Sutton cousin and my DNA match and they also matched which I was 99% sure they would. My sister appears to match her on the end of Chr 4 but at less than 5 cMs so I believe that is noise from colonial lines. On Chromosome 5 you can see the smaller match at just under 9 cMs between my sister and Mom.....a segment which I didn't get.from Mom. If I had already identified which side of Mom's that I got this section along..I would know that my Sister got the one from the other side of Mom's lines since we do not match. Another clue is found with the 5.38cM match that both me and my sister share with this DNA match on the X. Mom doesn't match this and I tend to believe it is most likely from Dad's side.. If so ..this will provide me with more clues as the X has certain inheritance patterns. I have looked back along My current theory is that this line is from Dad's side and that this and the segment that I have on Chr 4 is from the Craigs and or Knox line as this line is one further down the Morrow/Sutton lines.

Things to think about....If my sister had been the only one who tested for my family we would have totally missed the Paternal connection and likely written the Maternal match off as being too far back. Thankful that my sister tested because while we have a good deal of matches in common we have more that we don't have in common than I thought we would. I guess when you get out beyond 3rd cousins that happens even in ones that are heavily colonial. Something else that is very interesting. This DNA match has mostly Canadian ancestry....could their be a Loyalist in there somewhere?

This shows how Mom's kit, Dad's phased kit using mine(Mine minus Mom's DNA) and my sisters kit all match the DNA cousin that contacted me.

Visualizing relationships in DNA matches

When I am working with my DNA results and those of my matches, I often find I need to draw out how people were related.  I am a visual person when it comes to working toward a solution.Using Google Tools, I have been able to accomplish a great deal of what I had previously used MS Visio to draw or design.  I also love to use Evernote on occasion.  Lately my GO-TO has been the Google Drawing  tool which is part of Google Docs Toolbox.  I have made a template which I just make a copy of to start a new project.

This is actually a real life example with the names changed.   John & Jane are the couple from whom everyone descends.  Shane and Maggie are siblings which were high matches to the adoptee.
Rodney is the son of Maggie.  Among the adoptee's matches we also found other who descend from John and Jane thru another daughter named Minnie.  The other matches are a granddaughter and Great Grandchildren of Minnie. and I have mapped out their descent and noted the matching cM amounts for those that had tested.  I use the chart at the Shared cMs Project to get an idea of what the relationship might be by taking the amount of matching segments which are 7 cMs in length with that match and totaling them.  Then I find that amount on the chart.  From this I was able to form a hypothesis that the adoptee's birth father is more than likely a descendant thru Lulu.  In my drawing I use the amounts from GEDmatch unless otherwise noted.  (A) for Ancestry's guesstimate and (T) for FTDNA.

To me, it's just better when you can do this and see what is happening...or in some cases what is NOT happening.  Another added perk is the ability to save the file to your Google Drive and have it available to you at any time that you have internet access regardless of which device you are using..

This same technique could probably be accomplished in a regular Google docs or using Google Sheets(Evernote is another option).  I just happen to find that this works for me the best and thought I would share.

AncestryDNA Circles Spreadsheet strategy

This post is about how I am using the info in my AncestryDNA circle to choose which members in the circle would be most beneficial to ask to upload to GEDmatch.com.  If you are not aware of how DNA circles are formed please see the recommended reading links listed at the end of the article. They do have limitations.  You will need segment matches, chromosome browser, triangulation, documented research working together to prove descent.

I have been using the info from my autosomal DNA test which was done at AncestryDNA to map my DNA segments to my Ancestors.  I downloaded my raw DNA and uploaded to GEDmatch where I can compare to others who have tested at any of the other major sites and uploaded their results to the GEDmatch.com website.   I did also do the transfer to FTDNA of my results and other kits I admin because everyone will not upload to GEDmatch....It would be great...but it's just not going to happen. Much like a chromosome browser at Ancestry.  I can deal with that though.

I've tried setting some goals for my larger DNA circles.  My goal is to get as many of my DNA circle matches to upload as possible.  That said, there are other things I'd like to know in deciding which of those circle members would be the most helpful to my research.  

• Which of the members have matching DNA segments with me?
• How many centiMorgans does Ancestry guesstimate we share?
• Along which path do they descend?
• Are they uploaded to GEDmatch?

I chose one of my larger DNA circles---Jabel Putman 54 Members of which 24 match my kit.

After navigating to my DNA circles and selecting the Jabel Putman Circle this is what it looks like

From the Circle page I click on LIST to show the matches.  This particular circle has 3 pages of matches.  I opened my notepad and copy and pasted the listing of matches to my kit.  I then edited the info and inserted tabs so I could paste it into a spreadsheet.  I did a FIND & REPLACE ALL with DNA MATCH TO CIRCLE and replace with OOO,  Then I did a FIND & REPLACE ALL with DNA MATCH and replaced that text with XXX.(be careful not to reverse those two if you try this)

Once I had my layout like I wanted it, I pasted the info into a spreadsheet and adjusted the columns and added a column for GEDmatch # LINE(of descent). To really get an idea of what can be gained by seeing the kit at GEDmatch, I also added a SEGMENT MATCH column.  There are several other columns in the circle listing(Admin, Group and Connection Strength) and I chose to keep them with the exception of the image files.  I added formatting to make the spreadsheet more visually informative.  In the rows where the circle member was a DNA match to me (XXX) I shaded those rows a pale green. I began populating the GEDmatch # Column by adding the #s of the matches which I knew had uploaded to GEDmatch. While viewing the matches in List Mode, click on Relationship to determine that members line of descent and note it in the LINE column.  I chose to include the child and the grandchild in that column.  For the Segment Match column I viewed the profile for the matches(those with XXX), clicked on the i while viewing to find the guesstimated amount of shared DNA  After I had gotten the spreadsheet populated and formatted to my liking, I sorted by those who had XXX in the match column adding the word ASK in the GEDmatch # column for those who matched me but who had not yet uploaded to that site.

Below is a screenshot of a copy of my spreadsheet(I edited out/modified usernames)

It's a pretty good representation of the randomness of DNA inheritance even though we really have no way of knowing 100% for sure if this ancestor is responsible for the segment match

Looking at the spreadsheet now lets me know the answers to my earlier questions and will let me make the most of my time when contacting my matches and recommending that they upload to GEDmatch..

Recommended reading to learn about AncestryDNA's Circles

Lisa Louise Cooke's Genealogy Gem's article

Genealogy Junkie's AncestryDNA starter page

Also Roberta Estes' DNA Explained has many articles about AncestryDNA circles.

Blaine T. Bettinger's Update to The Shared cMs Project

More improvements in helping to determine possible relationships given the amount of shared cMs between matches in Autosomal DNA testing.

Blaine T. Bettinger's Update to The Shared cMs Project

Great info for those using Autosomal DNA testing in genealogy research or to locate unknown/lost family lines.

Ethnic results updated at DNALand

Admittedly I have not done much at DNAland other than register and upload my autosomal DNA test but I had heard that they have new Ethnic breakdown results so I went to check it out.  I think my original results was very generic there.  Something like 90+ European. Seems to be somewhat better now(see the screenshots below)  I still only have one close match there who is also a match at FTDNA.  This match is on my paternal side but beyond that I cannot tell where the connection is since my request to work together to find the connection has went unanswered.  I am sending an update and I hope that will spark a response.

Shows the Ethnic Breakdown in pie chart form

This shows where on the map the ethnic matches were located.

A more detailed explanation of that is included or not included in each grouping.  This varies from site to site--at Ancestry..the ones available at GEDmatch, 23&me and FTDNA.  To date this is the best explanation of what is included  at this site ....the other sites need something like this.  If they have it...it is not easily found.

My AncestryDNA Autosomal Results are in.

My AncestryDNA test results came back yesterday afternoon and as promised I am following up with a post comparing my prediction to Ancestry's interpretation of my Autosomal DNA test.


My prediction
Area Percentage
English 68.75%
Scottish 12.50%
Irish 6.25%
Austrian 3.13%
Manx 3.13%
Unknown 6.25%

The Africa Southeastern Bantu, Asia South, Iberian Peninsula and Caucasus parts which are less than 1% are likely "noise" from recombination of the DNA although it could be some of what is left in small amounts from generations way back.  I am as I suspected a vast majority of English/Irish/Scottish mix.  I was surprised to see 2% Scandinavia.  I have uploaded my raw data to Family Tree DNA and looking for connections there as well as having uploaded to GEDmatch.

I have connected with a 2nd cousin once removed almost immediately after viewing my results.  This connection was through GrGr Grandparents David Pitman & Mary F. Adcock Pitman. His Grandfather was their son David H. Pitman (a younger brother of my Great Grandmother Nancy Florence Pitman Luna)

Ancestry doesn't have a chromosome browser where you can compare results one on one or triangulate to see if your connections are through your paternal or maternal lines.   From what I've heard so far, there are no plans for one in the near future.  They do have the best turn around rate.  I have results in less than a month...and that,to me, is excellent.

I foresee many more posts about this topic as I analyze my results and hopefully convince one or more of my siblings and my mother and cousins to test as well.

Who do I think I am?

I have been wanting to do DNA testing for awhile now.  Last week I ordered an Autosomal DNA test from Ancestry.com which I will take and mail back this next week.  In an effort to make an educated guess about the outcome I have made a list of my 32 GrGrGr Grandparents(all but 2 of them are known surnames)

Paternal Surnames:  Cook(e), (Last Name Unknown wife of Cook), Putman(Last Name Unknown wife of Putman), King, Upshaw, Manire, Jackson, Jakes, Harger, Morrow, Sutton, Frizzell, Kennedy, Manley, Frizzell.

Maternal Surnames:  Luna, Lennox, Rigsby, Lewis, Pitman, Hatfield, Adcock, Bowles, Acuff, Curvin, McElroy, Webb, Hale, Elzie, Hitchcock, Fleming.


I examined the last names and determined from which part of the world they came.  The break down is shown below.

Area	#	Percentage
English	22	68.75%
Scottish	4	12.50%
Irish	2	6.25%
Austrian	1	3.13%
Manx	1	3.13%
Unknown	2	6.25%

I multiplied the amounts by 3.125(100/32) to get the %
I realize this is somewhat flawed not just because I don't know the ethnic background of the two unknowns but in most cases do not know the ethnic background of these GGG Grandparents mothers.  My Hatfield's mother was said to be Cherokee(I don't think her mother could have been more than 1/2 ) but I have no way of knowing how much so I didn't take that into account since her father was an English Hatfield.

I am not sure how Ancestry has their grouping now...but to me looks like I am 90.625% British Isles.  When I get the results I will post them so that I can compare to my guesstimate.  Too it might also depend on how much of each of the genes I received.   Those aren't always exact even in siblings.