Surnames of Jacob Sutton's Descendants.

 Today I worked with my Thruline™ of Jacob Sutton.  I looked at the DNA matches and noted the names of the ones which had known Sutton cousins as Shared matches.  The purpose of the exercise was to become familiar with the surnames carried by Jacob's descendants.  Sometimes we get so wrapped up in finding the common ancestor surnames that we forget that our DNA cousins surnames change when daughters marry etc. and these are names we might not recognize unless we study the entire family.  I've been acquainted with researchers who only study their direct ancestor.  That's something I've never understood because it really limits your research and causes you to miss out on so many opportunities for discovering other records. 

I could have collected the info and arranged it any number of ways:  a spreadsheet, notebook, index cards etc.  I chose to save it as an image file.  I used Awesome Screenshot extension in my Chrome browser to capture the list view and add surnames. 

Shared Segment Analysis: When a Match is both Paternal & Maternal

I'm working in matches at FamilyTreeDNA this morning and was looking at my brother, Michael's autosomal matches. Each of us have about 5 or so matches that show as matching our paternal & our maternal side.  My Mom, my paternal aunt,  3 of my siblings, and myself have our tests at FTDNA. So I gathered the segment data for one of Michael's matches that I'll call P. Smith just to get an idea of what was happening.  I then checked the match lists of my Mom, my paternal aunt, my siblings, my own match list,  and also my daughter's match list.  I was interested in seeing the size of the segments, how many of us had both or none and which segments each of us had.   I also wanted to know if my Aunt also had the segment that my brother had received from Dad.  Because of visual phasing and overlapping/shared/ICW matches I have a pretty good idea of the family groups that these segments were from but to simplify things I've only identified which of my grandparents passed on these segments.  

My brother was the only one of us tested that got both segments.  My sister got the segment from dad that was passed to him by his mother.  My other brother, and I got the segment from Mom that was passed to her by her dad.   My paternal Aunt did in fact have the same segment that Brother 1 received.  I have passed the segment of my MGF on to my daughter as well.  

From looking at the matches tree and also at share/ICW matches it appears that the PGM segment goes back along the lines of my Morrow/Sutton on back to the Knox Craig lines.  Not 100% certain but that is currently my hypothesis.  That would mean this segment is back around the 5th Great Grandparent level for me.  (screen snip from my working tree shown below)

The segment which my Mom passed to us(from our MGF) appears to be from my Mom's PGM's lines and from a person/couple who was born in the mid 1700s.

As a big fan of DNAPainter for analysis of dna matches, my next step is adding the matching segments to the profiles for each of the tests.  This is a simple process for the tests that just have one segment but has a few extra steps when there are multiple lines involved.  What I could do would be to add both segments under one group and then move the other segment to the appropriate group but I prefer to do it a different way.  I add just the one segment and then click on the option to add additional segments.  For me it works better that way.

It's important to note when we share more than one segment with a match, we cannot assume that both segments are thru the same lines without further evidence.  This drives home the importance of testing as many siblings and aunt/uncles/grandparents as possible.  Also I'm very thankful that this match was on a site that has a chromosome browser and that I had a good mix of tests with which to compare.

AncestryDNA Match List Stats--Then and Now

I was reviewing one of my blog posts from last year-- DNA Randomness: Siblings and noticed I had included some stats for our AncestryDNA match lists from that date---August 25, 2017, comparing the number of AncestryDNA matches in various categories of the DNA match lists of my sister, and myself.  I wondered how this year's stats would compare so I have included the ones from August of 2017( reformated for comparison purposes) in a table along with the stats I collected today

Sorting and keeping track of DNA matches

 I use the MedBetterDNA browser extension(available for the Chrome Browser) so that the notes section is visible from the match list without clicking thru to the match page.  My genealogy goal for this weekend is to finish sorting thru the 2nd page of my DNA matches at AncestryDNA and identifying thru which of my grandparents we connected.  I'd already had some of them done as I like to make notes on new matches as they come in but had about 20 to finish.  I'd finished the first page of matches earlier in the week.  I do this by checking to see if they match my Mom's kit and looking at the shared matches.  I have DNA share links to view results for a few close cousins from each side and that helps when trying to find the connection.  You can click thru to View Match and click on that matches name to go to the profile where you can click on Select DNA Test and select any of the other tests which you have permissions to view to see if they match. Also clicking thru to the match page helps because sometimes they do have a tree but have not linked it to their DNA.  Use caution because sometimes there are many trees not attached and you may not be able to identify the tree containing the DNA match.  Also, remember that shared matches tab only shows those matches which you share at the 4th cousin level or closer.  Use the Select DNA Test from the profile page when you start getting down to the cut off amount for 4th cousins to check other profiles.


My first page of matches had a total of 50 matches.  Three of those were people who I tested so I didn't count them.  Two of my matches matched me thru 2 grandparents.  On page 2(which also contained 50) of my matches, I have one match which I have not yet been able to narrow down.  I can tell that she is a paternal match but don't know for sure which of my Dad's parents her line is thru.  I use hashtags to identify each of my 4 grandparents  #PGF #PGM #MGF #MGM

I also try and keep track of my top matches on all the testing sites where I have a copy of my DNA results.  I do include the 23&me ones which are uploaded to GEDmatch as I am not at 23&me.  I also use GEDmatch amounts if I have them and don't include anything less than 7 cMs.  This allows me to see how many of my matches have uploaded or tested at a site which has a way to get those amounts.  Also, it shows me how many segments I could likely identify if the Ancestry testers were to upload to one of the sites which have a chromosome browser(MyHeritage, GEDmatch or FTDNA).

I use Google Sheets to keep track of my top matches.  I've omitted the Gedmatch #'s and Username/Alias column in the view of my Top Matches Spreadsheet(seen below)



I normally only add matches which share 50 or more cMs with me.  I do make an exception for the unknowns 40 cMs and up. 

AncestryDNA match category spread for my family's tests.

Mom's AncestryDNA matches include
2 children
1 granddaughter

2nd Cousin AncestryDNA category
(which includes some projected 1st-2nd cousins & 2nd-3rd cousins)
11 cousins--3 of which have uploaded to GEDmatch.com
AncestryDNA estimated shared cMs ranges from 623 cMs over 21 segments --235 cM over 9 segments
All are Paternal cousins except one--a known maternal 1C1R of the Acuff/Hale variety

3rd Cousin AncestryDNA category
39 cousins--6 of which have uploaded to GEDmatch.com
AncestryDNA estimated shared cMs ranges from 188 cMs over 9 segments-- 91 cMs over 5 segments

Subtracting those 50 matches and the 3 immediate family from her total shown 4th Cousins or closer match total and she has 2,266 4th cousins.  For the record all of Mom's 3rd cousins or closer have been asked if they would consider uploading their results to GEDmatch.  Looking at Mom's matches made me curious how the numbers compared to my results as well as those of my daughter, and my sister.

Mom is very fortunate to have many of  her closer cousins who have tested.  I wish more of the closer cousins would upload to GEDmatch.  It certainly would make sorting the matches easier.  In the end though it is their choice and more times than not, it is just not a priority for them.

Attempt at comparing MyHeritage test amounts onsite to MyHeritage test Uploads at GEDmatch

I have been curious to compare how my matches at MyHeritage show up(amount-wise) when they are uploaded to GEDmatch.  Today I noticed that I had  three new matches from MyHeritage at GEDmatch in addition to one that I'd had for about a week.  Uploaded MyHeritage kit are those identified by a prefix of the letter H.  That gave me a total of 4 matches to compare the reported amounts from MyHeritage to the matching amount at GEDmatch.  Sadly, I was only able to positively identify one of the matches.  I could not find the other 3 matches among my 89 matches at MyHeritage.  I did a scan of all nine pages and when that didn't result in me finding any of the 3 matches  I did a search for the full names and email user names.  Still nothing.  So then I looked up to the amount shown at GEDmatch + 10cMs nothing that looked like a match despite the fact that most of the users appeared to have used their full name.

Below are the amounts from GEDmatch and the comparison with the one match I was able to identify.  

Below is a screenshot of the last two matches on my My Heritage DNA matches.  They were sorted from Greatest Total Amount to smallest.  Why are matches 2, 3 and 4 not listed?  Is the Total Matching Theshold to make the list 15 cMs?  Smallest amount to be considered a segment match 5 cMs?

More questions than answers.  I did check the DNA Match quality info button, as well as the DNA help files to see if I could find the answer to the above questions but did not see anything listing what the cutoff amounts were to be listed, nor the minimum amount of cMs to be considered a matching segment.  I'll post an update if I figure out the answers. Comments are always welcome.

Working AncestryDNA circles and a few observations

My sister and I have both tested at AncestryDNA.  When I am working on a segment and it is pointing in the direction of a specific ancestor, I always check my AncestryDNA circles to see if I have a Circle for that particular ancestor or ancestor couple.  I work the circles.  What do I mean by work?  I have a spreadsheet template I use.  I begin by adding the Ancestor's name at the top.  The spreadsheet has columns for:

• Ancestry User Name
• Match or Match to Circle
• Estimated cMs/segments
• Group(Child thru which they descend)
• GEDmatch #(known and added as they upload)

I add the info for each circle I work and this helps me to track not only who matches me but the descendant pathways.  Also and probably the most important thing for me is that I can see at a glance which tester would be the most valuable to have their info at GEDmatch.   I generally write those who Ancestry estimates match me on multiple segments or at amounts greater than 15 cMs.  I ask them to consider uploading to GEDmatch if they are not already there and if they have uploaded, how to identify them among my many matches.  I want to focus on these larger matches for a number of reasons. The circle membership gives me a pretty good idea of where they could match me. It is easy to get overwhelmed by all the matches but I feel if you focus on the larger ones, those will help in identifying others.   I also like to look at the smaller matches and see how their estimated segment matches are in comparison with my sister's results.  If they match her at amounts over 15cMs I also message them. 

Stay focused on the larger matches when trying to get folks to GEDmatch.  However do not forget the randomness of DNA.  Siblings can vary greatly in what matches they have.

My sister and I are a great example of that.

Since Mom tested I was able to make phased kits(thanks to GEDmatch tools) which show the matches that each of us got from Dad(who passed before we began DNA testing.)  I have compared my Paternal Phased Kit to my sister, Becca's Paternal Phased Kit and also compared each of our Maternal Phased Kits.   Below are the results

Comparing Paternal Phased for Marie and Paternal Phased for Becca(Full siblings)

(Chr 1-22, X not included)

Largest segment = 134.6 cM

Total of segments > 7 cM = 1,526.2 cM

33 matching segments

Estimated number of generations to MRCA = 1.6

Comparing Maternal Phased for Marie and Maternal Phased for Becca(Full siblings)

(Chr 1-22, X not included)

Largest segment = 145.6 cM

Total of segments > 7 cM = 2,513.8 cM

50 matching segments

Estimated number of generations to MRCA = 1.3

So you can see that on our Paternal lines we appear to have gotten a greater variety, while Mom seems to have given us more of the same.  

Table below shows another example of the randomness. The amounts shown are those estimated by Ancestry and they tend to be slightly higher at GEDmatch.

Comparing segment matches we have to
members of a Paternal Ancestor Circle.  

Working on Identifying larger segment matches

I have been mapping my DNA segments to specific contributing ancestors for a little over 2 years now.  It is something I really enjoy doing but at the same time, it can be very frustrating.  When I first began I was the only one in my family who had tested.  A few months after getting my results I bought a test for my Mom who agreed to test.  This really helped when her results were in and uploaded with mine to GEDmatch as I was able to differentiate between matches which were on her side and those which were on my paternal side of the family.  GEDmatch has a tool that is extremely useful if you only have one parent who is able to test.  It allows you to use that parent's DNA to subtract the DNA they gave you leaving you with a Phased kit which containing just the DNA that the un-tested parent contributed.  Last year my sister tested and her results came in which gave me more date with which to work.  I couldn't have asked for better results.  While she is a full sister she and I match at 2513.7 cMs(not including the X amount) which is on the low end of full siblings meaning we received varying DNA from our parents.  I also created a phased kit of the DNA which she received from Dad and compared it to the phase kit of the DNA which I received.  It has given me a pretty good visual phasing though it's not perfect you can see the re-combinations.  I used this comparison to mark the segments where we were opposite and was able to narrow down some segments to PGM or PGF.

When I first got my results I was busily collecting my matches.  I collected anything 5cMs and up.  I guess I thought I'd miss something if I didn't.  Sure, I could have, but now I am working with the larger segments and I wish I had done this when I began.   I use GenomeMate Pro to catalog my matches and keep track of the kits I manage.  Most of the time I have anything under 12 cM hidden when viewing the matches on each chromosome.   I thought it would be a good project to tackle some of the larger segments.   I wanted an easy way to see the larger matches across all of the chromosomes at the same time. Below is what I did using my paternal phased kit

• Run a Matching Segment report set where it only includes 20+ cM segments
• Paste the results into a spreadsheet
• Format with headers to your preference 
• Set the sorts so it will sort by Chromosome and then by starting point
• Use the fill cell tool to group the ones which cover the same area
• Add a column on the far right of your Spreadsheet.  This column will be used to identify whether the match or the match group is from the Paternal Grandfather or the Paternal Grandmother's lines.

 How my chromosome, starting and ending position and segment size groups look
minus any identifying info(GEDmatch #s email addresses cropped out of pic)

I did the same thing using the paternal phased for my sister.  Yesterday I printed the spreadsheets and put them in  sheet protectors in a binder.  Today I begin reviewing our largest unassigned segments.   Technology is great, but I really do better if I have a printed paper to look at while searching over a pedigree chart rather than flipping back and forth from the chart to an actual spreadsheet or program.  Just the way I'm wired I guess.  I'd love to hear what has worked for others 

This is how I have my outer column for now  I could do a reprint later as I identify
PGM or PGF lines....but for now I will edit the old fashion way
(remove from sheet protector use color pencil and pen to add info
replace in sheet protector)

AncestryDNA Circles Spreadsheet strategy

This post is about how I am using the info in my AncestryDNA circle to choose which members in the circle would be most beneficial to ask to upload to GEDmatch.com.  If you are not aware of how DNA circles are formed please see the recommended reading links listed at the end of the article. They do have limitations.  You will need segment matches, chromosome browser, triangulation, documented research working together to prove descent.

I have been using the info from my autosomal DNA test which was done at AncestryDNA to map my DNA segments to my Ancestors.  I downloaded my raw DNA and uploaded to GEDmatch where I can compare to others who have tested at any of the other major sites and uploaded their results to the GEDmatch.com website.   I did also do the transfer to FTDNA of my results and other kits I admin because everyone will not upload to GEDmatch....It would be great...but it's just not going to happen. Much like a chromosome browser at Ancestry.  I can deal with that though.

I've tried setting some goals for my larger DNA circles.  My goal is to get as many of my DNA circle matches to upload as possible.  That said, there are other things I'd like to know in deciding which of those circle members would be the most helpful to my research.  

• Which of the members have matching DNA segments with me?
• How many centiMorgans does Ancestry guesstimate we share?
• Along which path do they descend?
• Are they uploaded to GEDmatch?

I chose one of my larger DNA circles---Jabel Putman 54 Members of which 24 match my kit.

After navigating to my DNA circles and selecting the Jabel Putman Circle this is what it looks like

From the Circle page I click on LIST to show the matches.  This particular circle has 3 pages of matches.  I opened my notepad and copy and pasted the listing of matches to my kit.  I then edited the info and inserted tabs so I could paste it into a spreadsheet.  I did a FIND & REPLACE ALL with DNA MATCH TO CIRCLE and replace with OOO,  Then I did a FIND & REPLACE ALL with DNA MATCH and replaced that text with XXX.(be careful not to reverse those two if you try this)

Once I had my layout like I wanted it, I pasted the info into a spreadsheet and adjusted the columns and added a column for GEDmatch # LINE(of descent). To really get an idea of what can be gained by seeing the kit at GEDmatch, I also added a SEGMENT MATCH column.  There are several other columns in the circle listing(Admin, Group and Connection Strength) and I chose to keep them with the exception of the image files.  I added formatting to make the spreadsheet more visually informative.  In the rows where the circle member was a DNA match to me (XXX) I shaded those rows a pale green. I began populating the GEDmatch # Column by adding the #s of the matches which I knew had uploaded to GEDmatch. While viewing the matches in List Mode, click on Relationship to determine that members line of descent and note it in the LINE column.  I chose to include the child and the grandchild in that column.  For the Segment Match column I viewed the profile for the matches(those with XXX), clicked on the i while viewing to find the guesstimated amount of shared DNA  After I had gotten the spreadsheet populated and formatted to my liking, I sorted by those who had XXX in the match column adding the word ASK in the GEDmatch # column for those who matched me but who had not yet uploaded to that site.

Below is a screenshot of a copy of my spreadsheet(I edited out/modified usernames)

It's a pretty good representation of the randomness of DNA inheritance even though we really have no way of knowing 100% for sure if this ancestor is responsible for the segment match

Looking at the spreadsheet now lets me know the answers to my earlier questions and will let me make the most of my time when contacting my matches and recommending that they upload to GEDmatch..

Recommended reading to learn about AncestryDNA's Circles

Lisa Louise Cooke's Genealogy Gem's article

Genealogy Junkie's AncestryDNA starter page

Also Roberta Estes' DNA Explained has many articles about AncestryDNA circles.

Blaine T. Bettinger's Update to The Shared cMs Project

More improvements in helping to determine possible relationships given the amount of shared cMs between matches in Autosomal DNA testing.

Blaine T. Bettinger's Update to The Shared cMs Project

Great info for those using Autosomal DNA testing in genealogy research or to locate unknown/lost family lines.

DNA Logic Puzzles

My Dad always loved the Logic puzzles in the Dell Puzzles Magazines. As I'm working on DNA matches today I can't help thinking about him.  Not just because I am working on my paternal matches but that he would like the logic I am using.  While I have had my DNA results and those of my Mom for over a year, my sister's results came in not long ago and we now have her kit at GEDmatch. She is a full sibling but there seems to be a good variation in the people which we match due to the randomness in the 50% which you get from each of your parents..  What does that mean for me? I can take her kit....run it with Mom's to phase out Mom's matches and create a kit of Sis' DNA she got from Dad...which I can then compare to my DNA which I got from Dad.  If I know that one of us matches Dad's Mom along one segment..and it's a segment that we don't match along....I then know that the other one of us matches Dad's Dad along that segment which we don't have in common.  After all...Dad only had two to offer...so you got one or the other.

An Example:
Chromosome 4 on my Paternal side(which I can see by using the phased kit) I have a section from about 4-40 which I know I can attribute to my Paternal Grandmother's  Morrow/Sutton lines. My Sister has NONE of these same matches along that same segment of her Paternal side(I can again distinguish her Paternal from her Maternal matches by using the phased kit of her DNA she got from Dad mentioned earlier).  By this I can conclude that the matches along that segment for her are from my Paternal Grandfather's side and somewhere back along the Cook/Putman or King/Manire lines.


While this won't solve all of my unknowns, it is a big help in knowing where to look for the connection for these matches. So many times I wish that the matches had some idea of which side I match them along.This is one of the greatest things about having a parent and a full sibling that have also tested.

Finally have New Ancestor Discoveries at AncestryDNA

After having results for my Autosomal DNA testing from AncestryDNA for a year and four months I am finally just now getting New Ancestor Discoveries.  I had contacted them last year about not having any despite my both my Mother and my Daughters test having In Common New Ancestor Discoveries that I should have also have gotten since my daughter would have gotten them from me.
Their response was a canned one see copy and paste below:

I told them that their response was not logical given the info I mentioned above.  My tree does have almost 9000 people in it but that is hardly large in comparison to a lot of the trees hosted there.

Interestingly enough the New Ancestor Discoveries that I have are not the ones that my Mom and my Daughter share(which my daughter would have gotten from me)  These are Paternal New Ancestor Discoveries.  I can tell because they all have one thing in common--the Putman line which is my Dad's Great Grandmother's line.  My daughter now has these in addition to the Maternal New Ancestor Discoveries she had.  She also has another New Ancestor Discovery which is not showing in mine yet and which also ties to the Putman family.

In addition to these New Ancestor Discoveries I also have a  new milestone of 600 4th cousin or closer matches.  Perhaps my sister's DNA results will be in soon.  The status on it went to lab processing last week.

AncestryDNA finally has a tab that lets you see In Common With for your matches

So excited to see this tool!!  Now you don't have to convince people to send a share DNA link.  They have also added filters for parents if you have had either of your parents tested you can filter by matches in common with either of them.